Anthony Marra: ‘For every Billy Wilder there is… | Little White Lies

Interviews

Antho­ny Mar­ra: For every Bil­ly Wilder there is some­one like Bertolt Brecht’

12 Oct 2022

Words by Ben Nicholson

Close-up of a man with glasses, short grey hair and a beard, against a grey background.
Close-up of a man with glasses, short grey hair and a beard, against a grey background.
In his first nov­el since being named one of Granta’s Best Young Amer­i­can Nov­el­ists in 2017, Antho­ny Mar­ra turns his atten­tion to old Hollywood.

Mer­cury Pic­tures Presents is a sweep­ing his­tor­i­cal nov­el rich in the details and tex­tures of a Los Ange­les that played host to a boun­ty of Euro­pean émi­grés. Despite their own pre­car­i­ous sta­tus, these aliens were – espe­cial­ly in the world of the movie busi­ness – tasked with cre­at­ing the nar­ra­tive around the US involve­ment in WWII and, ulti­mate­ly, in defin­ing the Amer­i­can mytholo­gies of the age. Here Antho­ny Mar­ra dis­cuss­es what attract­ed him to this peri­od and the chal­lenges and con­tra­dic­tions of being an émi­gré film­mak­er in Hol­ly­wood at this time.

LWLies: What was it that drew you to this par­tic­u­lar peri­od and the unique émi­gré expe­ri­ences you depict in the novel?

Antho­ny Mar­ra: I came to this book orig­i­nal­ly in 2014. My first two books were set in the for­mer Sovi­et Union and after doing those, I was ready to come in from the cold. I used to live in LA, my wife grew up there, and there was this peri­od in Los Ange­les his­to­ry when you saw this incred­i­ble cul­tur­al trans­fu­sion that was the result of tens of thou­sands of émi­grés flee­ing Europe and land­ing in LA.

You had Thomas Mann in the Pacif­ic Pal­isades writ­ing Doc­tor Faus­tus, you had Bil­ly Wilder and Fritz Lang on the back­lots of Para­mount and RKO blend­ing Ger­man Expres­sion­ist cin­e­matog­ra­phy and Amer­i­can pulp to cre­ate Film Noir. The idea of these indi­vid­u­als who have been cast out of Europe find­ing some form of sanc­tu­ary in Los Ange­les and then, par­tic­u­lar­ly through the movies, being expect­ed to imme­di­ate­ly begin – and this is a term that I believe was used by Wilder, though I may be mis­quot­ing – explain­ing Amer­i­ca to itself.” It seemed like such a fas­ci­nat­ing intel­lec­tu­al conundrum.

And that is exac­er­bat­ed by the onset of war.

Exact­ly. These indi­vid­u­als doubt­ed them­selves even more dur­ing the war years when they became instru­men­tal in the Amer­i­can pro­pa­gan­da appa­ra­tus. From the point in the book where Pearl Har­bour hap­pens, about halfway through, it deals large­ly with the expe­ri­ence of these film­mak­ers work­ing in the sort of build­ing pro­pa­gan­da busi­ness, but specif­i­cal­ly the moral con­tra­dic­tions of doing so as an ene­my alien.’

One of the para­dox­es that I found myself drawn to was the fact that these film­mak­ers were, in some ways, real­ly respon­si­ble for so much of the morale-build­ing patri­ot­ic imagery. It real­ly gal­vanised pub­lic sup­port for the war, par­tic­u­lar­ly in the ear­ly years, when it wasn’t going so well for the Allies – and yet due to their sta­tus as ene­my aliens,’ they were denied the very free­doms and rights that their movies vocif­er­ous­ly cham­pi­oned. The moral con­tra­dic­tion of that was what real­ly became the crux of the novel.

Book cover of "Mercury Pictures Presents" by Anthony Marra. The cover features a cityscape with a dramatic sunset sky in warm tones of orange and yellow.

There’s a moment ear­ly in the nov­el where one of your char­ac­ters, Maria, is reflect­ing that her gift of bypass­ing Hol­ly­wood cen­sor­ship may stem from her per­son­al his­to­ry with cen­sor­ship in Italy and there are often nar­ra­tives about how sys­tems of oppres­sion beget upwellings of rebel­lious cre­ativ­i­ty. Do you think there are spe­cif­ic rea­sons that these peo­ple com­ing from these back­grounds end­ed up being the par­tic­u­lar ones to define Amer­i­ca at this time?

Yeah, I think it’s a very inter­est­ing and knot­ty ques­tion. Just in terms of pure prac­ti­cal­i­ty, I think one of the rea­sons it tends to be émi­gré direc­tors whose lega­cy, specif­i­cal­ly from the war years, has last­ed the longest is in part because if they weren’t cit­i­zens, they weren’t eli­gi­ble for the draft.

It meant they were able to con­tin­ue work­ing in Hol­ly­wood and they became some of the most employ­able peo­ple because stu­dios knew that they weren’t going to risk los­ing them to the army. So, I think those pure­ly finan­cial incen­tives played a role, but I also think that, regard­less of where peo­ple are com­ing from, often­times out­siders are just able recog­nise things about a par­tic­u­lar cul­ture that the locals may overlook.

You spent sev­er­al years research­ing this nov­el, includ­ing, a lot of rum­mag­ing through the BFI archives, I believe. To your mind, was this a com­mon expe­ri­ence for film­mak­ers arriv­ing from Europe?

No, I think it’s impor­tant to keep this in mind. Even if there are, you know, some of these indi­vid­u­als who we see as real­ly defin­ing that era that there were many more who just floun­dered. For every Bil­ly Wilder who came to Amer­i­ca and real­ly had a much bet­ter go of it here than he did in Europe, in terms of his career, there is some­one like Bertolt Brecht who came and end­ed up writ­ing Hang­men Also Die! but that was kind of it. He spent his entire time in LA just mis­er­able and unable to get any of his work pro­duced. I think that sto­ry is much more com­mon. I think it’s easy to look at the bright­est stars in the fir­ma­ment and sort of see­ing that as being the most obvi­ous path when, in fact, I think far more of these exiles and émi­grés came here and just sort of burned out.

You’ve men­tioned Wilder and Brecht there and the likes of Mann and Lang pre­vi­ous­ly. How much did you use real peo­ple – and events – as direct inspi­ra­tion for what we read in the novel?

Sev­er­al char­ac­ters and inci­dents are based on actu­al his­tor­i­cal events and per­sons. I imag­ined Mer­cury Pic­tures itself to be kind of like a Colum­bia with a front office that was run like a down­mar­ket Warn­er Broth­ers. Their tra­jec­to­ry is based on Jack and Har­ry Warn­er, in terms of both the movies that they argue about and try to pro­duce and it sort of heads, at the end of the book, the same way that Warn­er Broth­ers did. In terms of spe­cif­ic movies and direc­tors: towards the very end of the book, there is this doc­u­men­tary being filmed that’s based on John Houston’s San Pietro.

I’m real­ly sort of fas­ci­nat­ed by the way that San Pietro is still regard­ed as one of the great doc­u­men­taries, despite the fact that it’s almost entire­ly staged. There’s anoth­er one of the pre­ced­ing chap­ters based on an actu­al army pro­gramme that was set up in 1943 where a group of émi­gré archi­tects and Hol­ly­wood set design­ers cre­at­ed a series of metic­u­lous Berlin ten­e­ment blocks in the mid­dle of the desert. Why would they do this? Well, it was because the US Army was try­ing to fig­ure out how to start a firestorm there.

I found it so dis­turb­ing and so mov­ing that so many of the émi­grés who worked on this project were deeply home­sick. The only way that they could walk those streets and enter build­ings that remind­ed them of their child­hood homes was to par­tic­i­pate in a project that would leave the real Berlin in ruins. The idea of watch­ing this destruc­tion over and over, I just found incred­i­bly unset­tling and very pow­er­ful – I had to include it.

Mer­cury Pic­tures Presents is released by John Mur­ray Press and avail­able to buy now.

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